MoneyMoneyMoney Mon-ay (Hoo-Hah)
Sing it with me…. !
Okay, nobody knows that song….
I’ve been thinking a little bit about money. It hasn’t been the first thing on my mind, but it’s been knocking around back there, and I needed to email someone about it recently so I thought I might as well blog it out a bit.
We don’t really take a collection at Monkfish Abbey/ThPM. I was getting paid for awhile, but now we are sort of mildly supplementing my childcare expenses instead of full-on covering them, and it’s working out alright, so I don’t really mind. We don’t have many expenses, just soup and bread and wine and the occasional hundred or two for a big party or art project. I try to make sure at least ten percent of what we take in is given away to folks in need. This year we’ve helped out with some rent (our folks and folks in our “parish” who don’t come to Monkfish), we’ve served some meals to families without homes, we’ve given some gifts to at-risk kids, and we’ve replaced a windshield for a neighbor. It’s not much, but it’s felt good and been well received. I’ve been really happy that we had the funds to do it. I really do feel like these financial helps are a way of extending the loving hand of Christ to the world (one of my catch phrases) and I like doing it.
I’ve talked to the tribe a couple of times about giving, and most of them know how I feel about it. I’d like it if they threw a couple buck in the “soup fund” bowl or brought some drinks in to stock the fridge from time to time–but if they can’t they can’t and that’s fine too. I’d also like to have some money coming in to Monkfish for projects and giving, but I’m not going to insist upon it, it’s really up to them. I do encourage everyone to give somehow of their “time, talents, and money” as the good Papa Ed would say. I’ve been really touched of late because one of our tribe peeps has been doing the time and talent thing by stopping by our house every couple of Saturdays to putty and patch and paint things that are falling down. (The Densmore house is nearly 100 years old, so this is sort of a constant process.)
When I was at Emergent SD, I got to hang out a lot with Deborah Lloyd, who I absolutely adore. Her kids are my age, so she’s more lived and much wiser than I, plus she is just undeniably cool and I have a hard time ignoring that. I mean, she’s got bleached dreadlocks and the best wardrobe ever, and her Marilyn Monroe- style lip ring tends to coordinate with her outfits, so come on, wouldn’t you listen twice?! Anyway, when we were together she was asking me about Monkfish and if they tithe, and I said, “sorta, some of them do.” She gave me a fairly convincing little chat about how I should encourage them to tithe, to Monkfish specifically. She had Biblical references about pastors being paid, and personal stories about how the people that tithed with them from the get go are really doing the best in general, life wise, and how they have good “buy in” to their church and the ministry they are trying to do with the street youth in Portland and stuff.
Even though I wasn’t vibing with her fairly traditional take on giving, I kept talking with Deborah and told her that Monkfish didn’t really need (much) money, that I didn’t really need a salary like she and Ken do, and that I’d rather the tribe just give money where they think it should go—like to Doctors without Borders, or the Interfaith Hospitality Network or whatever. She said that they needed to learn to tithe, specifically to the church, and that if we didn’t need all that came in, I could just re-direct it somewhere else.
Now, I want to respect deeply what Deborah was telling me. I never ever throw away what she gives me. Even if I’m not sure about it, I put it on the shelf and dust it often and take it down from time to time to turn it over in my hand. I’m serious about these people and I treat what they give me seriously. So I’ve been thinking about that conversation a lot lately. But this is what’s bugging me. Why does the money have to come through me? I mean, if one of my hopes with this thing is that I create a space where people get to know God better, and get to become more Jesus-y, wouldn’t it be better to give up that control and let the people try to get a hold of it? Wouldn’t it be a good plan to let people listen, and discern, and decided for themselves how to practice the practice of generosity? Why do I have to be in charge of where the money goes?
Giving up control has been a common theme for me in my decon/recon process regarding pastoring (or cultivating, or being an abbess, or whatever you want to call this thing I am doing.) And money, well we all know how hard it is to give up control of that particular little piece of mammon. I mean, I’d love it if everyone gave me ten percent of their lively hoods and I could dole it out to all my pet projects and sweet neighbors in need. But really, I’m not sure that’s my call. And I’m not sure it’s good for my easily swollen head to get all the props for coming to rescue every time someone I know, or some organization I admire is in need. So I’d rather delegate that responsibility … and that joy. I’d rather give people back their control.
Now what do you think? Because my other mentor-y friend Jim, he says I need to encourage more tithing too. He says I need to receive some sort of “respect money” for doing what I do – some cash to help with travel as we spread the Abbey joy from conference to conference, a little moola to help offset the babysitting, that kind of thing. So I’m sitting here, wanting to create an environment where people can learn to be more Jesus-y (including myself); wanting to make sure we’ve got funds on hand to help when needed; wanting to give back control — but also wanting to listen well to my elders and wisers. So what do you think? What would you do?
i’m a 20+ year veteran church musician, worship leader, songwriter and author. I’ve been around… too FAR around, I fear! I dig what you are all doing! It’s time to change the church! visit my blog sometime… http://www.commonsaints.blogspot.com/
Blessings,
Dan McGowan
The small house church [for want of a better name - LOVE yours] we are part of had a study on this last weekend. Most of us are from a traditional heritage of tithing to the “central storehouse.” But as we emerge into being church rather than just doing it, we are also wondering how this works in a new paradigm. Unlike Monkfish Abbey however, we don’t have a specific “leader,” we all participate at various levels that are in constant flux.
I would be very interested to hear how other emerging groups deal with the issue of offerings and tithe.
It’s my opinion that just as there are those who are called to preach, teach and sing, there are those called to count and manage the money. That’s what stewardship is, and I believe strongly that it is important that a faith community understand tithing — because it’s *not* about the church hoarding money. It’s about blessing. There is blessing in seeing how a community can respond to a sustained commitment, as well as in times of emergency. There is blessing in choosing to not have one latte a week in favor of supporting your community of faith and its ministry.
May I be honest? I think you are focusing too much on yourself — you are saying *I* don’t need very much, or *we* only need this much. But the practice of stewardship is a valuable spiritual discipline in itself that can yield things you perhaps have not yet dreamed — things not for *you* but for the community.
I think perhaps I would being the discussion and as it progresses, talk about having three or four people come together to be accountable for the monies that come in through collections. The people should be someone who has an interest in money — a finance person, banking, business person, at least two people who are interested and active in social/mission/justice-type issues and perhaps an at-large-person who knows the heartbeat of the community — what’s on their hearts and minds. Establish a discretionary fund for you to disburse as you see fit, an expenses fund for community expenses (including any monies they decide you should receive — which should be an established, set amount every month. )Whether you “need” it or not is irrelevant; take the money and write a check back to the community or establish your own stewardship to the causes of your choice with the money Finally, establish a fund for disbursing funds for a regular giving commitment as well as emergency concerns, as designated by your giving group.
I know that you’re probably shaking at the idea of this much organization in something organic, but it’s actually pretty simple — you get them together over wine and cheese the same way as anything else — and you just make sure one person is paying attention to how much is coming in and going out… the really important thing is that person should not be the pastor. First, it’s not what your calling is. Second, you’re not good at it. Third, it’s someone else’s calling — let them serve. There’s probably not enough cash flowing around to actually establish separate accounts, but an Excel spreadsheet is good enough to get you going… and a finance person could help you take a $1000 Christmas offering and turn it into something more by next Christmas that you could then use the interest of to help even more people.
I’m going on and on… I’m sorry I hijacked your comments. I guess I’m a little passionate about this. I just believe in stewardship so much, and a young community has the opportunity to do it right and better — imagine the possibilities!!
Rachelle, I totally agree with you on this one. We have a small home group. I did set up a church fund/tax number and all that stuff and my husband and I tithe to it regularly but we have told everyone else involved that it was entirely up to them whether they tithed to that fund (some do and some don’t) or whether they put their tithe money to other uses. They all come from churchy backgrounds so they know about tithing but we want them to hear God for themselves on how to tithe. What money we do have in our fund is put to good use… parties, mostly, but we have done lots of community type stuff with it like repair roofs, buy hot water heaters, pay rent for people, help with doctor bills, we sent a teen to YWAM for a summer mission trip, even helped send Jen to SanDiego. I don’t want any part of the kind of control that tells people they have to do what I say, they need to hear God, not me.
Oh, yeah, and I do know the song… Pink Floyd.
um, does that line finish “in a rich man’s world?” didn’t know if it was an Abba reference…anyway. This is hilarious b/se i was just thinking about this issue. thanx for burning it into my thought - it’s a God thing. Ok, i am still not so sure that i can draw a line from OT giving and NT practice. But i won’t belabor that point right now - let’s just say that people need to give. I think that much is apparent. How should that be done? Can’t there be a much different model than we are used to? What if we could keep giving away their life, their love, and their money foremost in our brothers & sisters minds and hearts? What if we hold high their action when they do it? What if we celebrate like crazy? I am always for putting the responsibility back on people. Let’s teach them to live a life of obedience in the moment. Let’s teach them to be discerning on when & how to give, how to spot cons, how to worship in this act. Money is serious business. Folks seem to say, “It’s just money.” If you say that - you don’t understand money. Because it is such a powerful thing, especially in our capitalistic, consumeristic culture, we have to push ourselves and our communities in it. Now, having said that, giving entails much more than money. And that is what i want my people to understand. I think there is a valid point in folks who labor for the gospel receiving funds. I have always said that. It does change dynamics - big time - but there are places and times to do it. Just when that is - well that takes real judgment and discernment. Thanks for a great, thought-provoking post. Oh, and the Lloyds are fabulous people…can’t go wrong hanging with them.
hi Rachelle
you’ve been one of my on-line inspirations for quite a few months now (girls at Anglican theological college are sometimes a bit short on that in real life!), but I didn’t feel like I needed to put my two ha’porth in yet..
however just recently in my wee ‘church’ called hOME (http://www.home-online.org/) we’ve been thinking about spiritual disciplines, and I think handling money is most definitely a spiritual discipline (apparently Jesus talked more about money than any other subject, after the kingdom of God… so that’s probably a clue…) anyhow our general conclusion about the spiritual life, is that without accountability we generally just drift, not even putting into action the things we want to do and I think that is especially true with money (perhaps more so in the UK since we really don’t like talking about it, so it’s an even bigger issue for us since it stays ‘in the dark’ ‘a private matter’)
so I guess what your post made me think is that often encouraging people to give/tithe/whatever can be the start for enabling them to be accountable for the way they use all their money and think about how it all belongs to God anyhow… so actually its not about whether you need the money, it’s more about allowing space for freedom from it’s power, and from the sounds of it you yourself are pretty uncomfortable with talking about/dealing with it… or maybe that’s my cultural spectacles overinterpreting… anyhow the main thing is allowing people to grow in openess and accountability in every area of their lives as a community, but I don’t suppose you ever have to ’see’ the majority of the giving - it could go straight to charities, the deal is to bring it out into the open…
man, that was a bit more than two ha’porth wasn’t it?! anyhow thanks so much Rachelle for sharing the lessons that you and your community are learning with the wider world - it really blesses me:)
Hey….
Just so you know…I read your blog I just never comment. It is in my favorites…
anyways…I was at Costco this morning and bought two copies of Annie Lamotte’s new book one for me and one to give to someone. If you don’t have it yet can I give it to you?
Email me and let me know!
Love you!
kat:)
my first immediate thought (which has been occuring to me lately) is i want to give rachelle money! don’t you always want to give money to the people who aren’t grabby to get it and know how to give it so well?
i hear what you’re saying, but deborah is mother superior, so i’m going to stay on that page for a second.
instead of thinking of it as the people giving money to you, i wonder what it would mean for monkfish abbey to decide to pool some money to distribute communally? there’s something about everyone throwing common resources together that gels you as a community, especially when the sole purpose of the money isn’t to pad your bank account but to give back to your community. it would be nice from time to time to say let’s do something together really focused and what is that thing? what is it that we as a community want to pour our love?
i don’t think you can require it, but i do think that jim is on to something to. the people who go to monkfish hopefully understand what it costs you to do it, even if it is only a little financially and a lot emotionally. tending to your finances for childcare or conferences is a way of saying thank you or we’re in this together and while you make this space for us, we want to also make space for you…to recharge, to reflect, etc. money can be yucky and hierarchal or it can be communal and familial in the best way. it’s a way of sharing and that’s important in the life of a community, no matter how small. if you can’t share money or take care of each other in an attentive, thoughtful way, then something’s up, no??
love you and hope you get lots of unexpected cash to give away in glorious ways!
I think the emerging/postmodern/simple/organic/or whatever you call it church has some work to do in three areas: economics, evangelism, and evaluation…do you like the alliteration? My suggestion, learn to give the way Jesus says to give…don’t worry about tithing, he wants a lot more than 10 percent. Parable of talents, advice to the rich young ruler, etc. If you are the teacher then you need to teach by word and by deed….if your Christ-followers get it, then don’t worry about respect money, you won’t get it or the respect….Blessings,
Charlie Wear
Hey Everyone:
Thanks for all your comments and thoughts. I’ll be chewing them over for sure!
There are three issues that always get a goodly amount of comments: money, homosexuality, and women in leadership. Interesting….
Kat, I would adore having a copy of Plan B. I bought a bunch of books last week on women in the bible b/c the girls need me to tell them more about those hidden gems. Also, I’m trying to do some research for a children’s book. But, once I bought them I saw Anne’s new book was out –and my book budget was GONE! You’re so sweet to think of me.
Okay y’all. Got to go write something for an Emerging Women’s Leadership shindig at Mars Hill next week.
Bye
R
It might be helpful not to lump all the money related issues into one thing. (whether or not or how much you get, whether or not you control it, and whether or not people should pool their funds) To me those are separate issues though not unrelated.
The one thing that occurred to me while reading your post was the issue of control. You asked why you should be the one to control the funds. You want others to be in control of what they do with their money. I would suggest that this control is also not so good or it at least needs to be confronted. I have lots of control issues, money is a big one. It is good for me to give some of that away. You (the church) could probably figure out a way to accomplish all these things.
sister rachelle,
a great discussion has come. . . ! it is like two sides of a coin. people control. church control. however, we forget that both sides of the coin come from God.
money. . . . He owns IT ALL. He says, He will provide for our needs. . . . we are much MORE VALUABLE than the sparrows, which have all their needs met.
this thing about money has come to my mind since november, about you & paul on the westcoast serving God through your thpm & surrounding community. . . . and now, more recently, actually, even this morning, how am i inwardly & outwardly practicing faith/trust in God for my needs in the area of money or “all these things”?
another thought that comes to mind is “testing God” as He says concerning tithes. tithing can be applied the ot way 23%, the church’s old traditional way 10%, the church’s new way 2%, or the nt way, “who knows the good he ought to do & doesn’t do it, sins”. a question to ask ourselves before God is “have i ‘hoarded wealth in the last days’, while others could have used or could i have been a channel by which those means would help someone meet Jesus?”
lastly, if you feel uneasy about being given money for thpm, i would suggest creative means, like letting those who regularly attend know the needs you & your family have that are directly influenced by the work you do for thpm. then instead of giving “10%”, they can individually or collectively pitch in for an airfare ticket, babysitting needs & the like.
i know how it feels to be on the receiving end. . . & it has developed A LOT of trust in me towards my loving, all knowing, benevialent Heavenly Father. i know what we receive as a family here among this community is from HIM & all our needs are met!!!
seeking Him, sister rachel
hey Rachelle…
Deborah Loyd here. My initial comment about tithing was meant to rattle your cage and it sounds like there is a lot of energy around this issue of money and giving. I like it.
Let me say that we encourage people to give and develop a generous spirit because they need to become something other than what they are. Few people are naturally generous. As leaders we do not need the money. God will always provide for us. Giving says more about the giver than it does about who you give to. Is there a generous and faithfilled attitude? As a community leader I am always looking for ways to bring growth to the flock that God has entrusted to me. It is my responsibility even though it may be uncomfortable at times. THis issue is not about me as a leader.
I hate to say it this way but if God has His hand on your wallet, He has his hand on your heart as well. Why? because our money represents our time which is our freedom and our power and so many other things. This is why Jesus talked about it so much. Think about Annanias and Saphira… their hypocrisy was over the issue of money.
By the way Rachelle I forgot to tell you that I love you and I love what you are doing… Keep up the good work.
Deborah