A very strange enchanted boy.
A Prologue: This isn’t a statement about homosexuality and whether or not it is a sin. This isn’t a statement about gay marriage and what should be done about it’s legislation. This is a story. It is a story about a boy. A boy I loved and how I lost him, and how sad that makes me feel.
When I was in college at SPU I had this friend, Robert. In the course of four years he went from being a the vice president of the Young Republican club to the most liberal writer on the school paper – reknown for tequila, cigars, and leftist tendencies. He was my most soul-attached guy friend and we were deeply rooted in some way I’ve never quite understood. He used to call me when he was dumped, or drunk, or melancholy (usually all three) and sing James Taylor tunes into my answering machine. I loved him. Strangely enough, we never dated, never even tried. There was something there that whispered to us “wrong idea.”
When Robert “came out” it wasn’t easy. All his friends were conservative Christians and his Dad, well, he was a military officer in the deep south, so you can imagine. Robert’s solution was to just make a lateral move from his college world (virginal, conservative, cloistered) to his post college world (sexually active in all manners, liberal, culturally current.). Of this I was equal parts sad and relieved. I missed Robert, I still do. But at the same time, I was afraid to face his out-of-the-closet self. He had undergone a tremendous change. He had exhibited incredible strength of character. In many ways, he was doing something I truly admired and can’t even manage to do under far less strenuous circumstances — he was being true to himself. In the face of all that risk, and pain, and bravery, all of the religious answers I held seemed at best, pansy-assed and at worst deeply painful.
How could I look at this man I loved, and say “Love the sin but hate the Sinner.”? (Which by the way, is NOT a Bible verse.) How could I say, “I love you, but I think this major part of you – perhaps a core part of you—is ugly, sinful, and wholly without merit?” Even if I said these things in the nicest possible way, how could he receive any of that without deep pain?
So, I didn’t go after him. I chose to let Robert drift from my life. I held on to memories and photographs. I listened to James Taylor on gray days. I let nostalgia take his place. I whimped out.
A year or two ago, on a lark, I googled Robert’s name. Turns out he’s still in Seattle and is very VERY active in the gay community. He writes a lot of articles on-line and in the press. For awhile he was on rampage about how heinous it is to have to use condoms all the time. How laytex creates this awful artificial barrier between you and your partner. (Which, you know, is kinda true.) Robert was always a risk taker. I started to worry about his natural life span. I started thinking about AIDS.
And that’s when the shit really hit the fan. The way I was living my religious, Jesus-following life had completely removed this man from me. Were he to be on his death bed I would have no call to ask to be beside him. And I would want to. I would want to hold his hand.
So it’s got me to thinking….what I am going to do with this homosexual issue? (Because it’s not an issue really. It’s about people, not idealologies.) What does the Bible say, really? And in the face of what it says, can we find a way to live a more authentic love with those who are gay (practicing or not)? There are plenty of gay Christians, could any one of them live in my community in a genuine way – or would they always have to leave part of themselves hidden, compartmentalized? Because if they can’t live with us as genuinely as the next guy (or gal), then that to me is a flaw in what I’m trying to build in my home—a less-than-successful attempt to live the way of love demo’ed by Jesus. I’d like to find the answers to some of these questions.
Cuz, I’ve seen fire and I’ve seen rain
I’ve seen painful times that I thought would never end
I’ve seen lonely times when I wish I had a friend
But I always thought that I’d see you…one more time again.
WOW, Rachelle!! Great blogging these past few days. You’re sharing some really important and insightful stuff. Keep blessing us with your words, your insights, and your always-inspiring “less-than-succesful” attempt to cover the song Jesus first demo’ed for us.
wow - thanks rachelle. i too have a friend who i knew “before” and “after” the coming out. now even though we live in the same city we see each other every couple of years. and this was the boy i was with everyday my senior year…so sad.
sin is sin - there is no greater or worse sin. we hang out with liars, gossipers, lusters, and the self-righteous (and are these people ourselves quite often) without really giving it a second thought. why should we not embrace our gay friends?
someone is forcing me to think about this issue a lot lately. can’t we just go back to being kids?
<><
I’m glad you asked for stories. Yes, I have one.
Once upon a time in a little town in Colorado….
I had a good friend in high school. We went roller skating together most Fridays, joked around a lot, did some of the same Christian Youth activities. Officially we were a couple, but really we weren’t having what you’d call a dating relationship. For various reasons, that was okay with both of us.
I went away to college and he stayed close to home, but we kept in touch for a couple years. One year I came home to find my friend going to my church. He’d been caught having sex with another guy in a restroom at a truck stop (Yeah, I know. But more about this later). Now in a small town police reports are newspaper worthy, and that’s how he was “outed.” Yep, his name, the other young man’s name, and even a few details were printed in the local paper. He was at my church because he’d been asked to leave his own (My own church, mind you, was not affirming either. He was still trying to change his orientation to please his parents and his community and my church accepted this).
Not long after, the small town grapevine brought word that he’d been disowned by his family and left town. It was years before I caught up with him again. He told me later he didn’t want to talk with any of us; that he didn’t want to be reminded of a hurtful time.
So the details of what happened that year didn’t come to me till much, much later. What seemed to have happened was this: he was growing more and more nervous about his possible sexual orientation and had no one to talk with about it. Believe it or not, in this town there was no one he felt would hear his feelings without condemning them…he’d heard his pastor preach on the subject, his parents talk about the subject, his friends say some very hurtful things about people that _seemed_ gay. There was no gay/lesbian support group in town, no PFLAG, not even a Christian support group for people were gay and _not_ practicing the lifestyle. There was nothing. So he decided to experiment on his own, answered and ad, and ended up having his first experience in a public restroom.
When I first heard this, years after the fact, it made me feel ill. I couldn’t help exclaiming, “Oh, honey, no…That’s so…”
To which he replied, “Yeah, I know. And dangerous. But where was I supposed to go? Who was I supposed to ask?”
Good question.
When his parents found out (from the newspaper, remember)they told him to get Christian counseling. He got Christian counseling and decided he could be both gay and Christian. His parents have not spoken to him since, nor will they answer his calls. Mind you, his brothers and sister have been in various kinds of trouble of their own (his sister, for example, had a baby out of wedlock) and are still accepted at home. I am still angry that his parents couldn’t bring themselves to make what I consider a minimally Christian response, “I don’t agree with what you’re doing, but I still love you.” What would that have cost them?
Anyway, for me it was an eye-opener about several things, not the least of which are: 1. Bad things happen when a community pretends things are the way they want them to be, rather than the way they really are. 2. I want to be a safe place for my friends, always, and that means speaking up on subjects that might make a few waves.
r,
why don’t you call him?
:)
j
Rachelle,
My word. That was beautiful.
Until last year, I always came down on the issue by naively saying, “homosexuality is sin. Dont do it”. I just couldn’t understand when a gay person would say that they are just acting out of who they think they are, maybe even how they were born.
I really changed my opinion last year after reading the most sensitive, insightful and non-hateful book on homosexuality. After reading it, I am still convinced that homosexuality is a sin, but I have so much compassion on the wounds that are the root causes of it. But, also, so much hope that Jesus can heal those wounds.
The book is called “Setting Love in Order” by Mario Bergner. I highly recomend it to anyone looking for a compassionate understanding of homosexuality combined with a great hope in the power of God to change those who want to be changed.
Also…I agree with Jen, why not call him?
Rachelle… you have an incredible heart and God’s love pours from your soul. You friend has obviously missed out on you… what a tragedy.
I volunteer in the county prison to do drug and alcohol counseling using a Christian curriculum. I love the men that I work with… they are some of the most passionate and real people I have ever met. And most of them are just a g-bag or two away from death. They’re clean and sober while in prison, so I don’t see what it is like for them if they relapse. I really HATE heroin addiction because I see what it does to the lives of people.
I have nothing but concern and love for people, addicts, gay, whatever. Many gay people, (as well as many hetro’s) are addicted to sex, which is every bit as destructive as drug addiction. I still hate the destructive forces in their lives.
There seems to be an under-current of thought that suggests that if the heterosexual world would just “get a grip” and treat homosexuality as an equal “alternate lifestyle”, then the emotional pain of the gay community would go away. While I’m sure that the heinous way that some people treat homosexuals does cause pain, homosexuality is inherently going to cause pain… the pain is from inside, not out.
As a prison counselor, one quickly realizes that the inherent pain of addiction is essential to the addict getting help. With the most altruistic motives, anything one does to mitigate the pain of addiction actually prolongs the pain. Healing of addiction must start from the addict. Having said this, I would NEVER cause an addict pain for any reason… this would be at best misguided and more likely just plain cruel.
Much of this applies to those who are caught up in homosexuality. While I would never do anything to cause anyone pain if I can help it, I also will not mitigate pain that is the natural outcome of sin… it would just prolong the agony. The mere fact that their entire life and lifestyle is summed in the way they like to have sex… that’s gotta be painful in and of itself. I don’t even discuss how I like to have sex with anyone other than my wife… I would be really unhappy to be known by people as the guy who has this peculiar sexual habit… I certainly wouldn’t embrace the label or encourage the sexualization of my identity.
Rachelle, use the gift of your incredible heart to love everyone, particularly homosexuals, and they’ll feel the reflected love of Jesus. But consider at least not ENCOURAGING homosexuality or homosexual agendas.
-vern-
This is such a tough subject for me. I spent most of my life in a liberal, non-church environment. Acceptance of homosexuality is a no-brainer for me. I can’t say that now, as a Christian, that I spend a lot of time worrying about whether or not it’s sin. But my church teaches that it is sin and that people “in the lifestyle” have to change. I have a gay friend who I love, but would never consider inviting to my church because I wouldn’t want to cause him that kind of pain. There has a to be a new way. Thanks for trying to find it.
Peace,
Karen
Oh, I have called him. I think he thinks I’m a complete stalker wierdo because I drop him notes and call him at radnom intervals (whenever the Muse strikes.) But so far, no response.
R
Why not email him what you’ve written about your sense of loss when you think of him? Express your pain.
-vern-
Wow! This guy’s conservative to liberal transformation reminds me so much of my own journey. I was a Buchannon-voting, Southern Baptist-attending Republican my freshman year in college. Now I’m a Nadar lovin’ pomo. It’s interesting trying to work this out with family. I don’t think they understand why this transformation is taking place in me. Maybe it’s Fuller, who knows? In any case, although I’m a heterosexual I can understand a little of where he’s coming from.
I’m a steam roller baby. I’m goin’ roll all over you….
Hey Lindell!
I’ve stopped thinking of myself in terms of conservative or liberal… as I head for Christ and away from these ideologies, I see that both camps are full of fakers, posers, wannabes and some general wack jobs. As well as some very nice folks who quit thinking critically years ago.
I think that we as Christians should take the best that our culture has to offer… pomo has some great qualities… and leave the rest… pomo at it’s secular core is misguided… everything in life is relative, but only relative to God.
2 Timothy 4:3
You’re going to find that there will be times when people will have no stomach for solid teaching, but will fill up on spiritual junk food - catchy opinions that tickle their fancy.
Doesn’t make me right… but I am open to talk about issues. Having an opinion doesn’t necessarily make one a bigot. I’ve hear that the definition of a bigot is “the one winning in an ideological discussion.”
This blog is Notes from a Truth Seeker… truth is not relative. Truth is Truth. If one is aligned with Truth, nothing anyone ever says can be of much consequence. People tend to get most bent out of shape when truth they inherently know is awakened in them and it conflicts with their will. Counsellors call this denial.
I tend to listen up when people talk, as I fully accept how far my life is from absolute Truth.
-vern-
Rachelle: this is beautiful. thank you so much for sharing it. I’m an irregular reader, but am glad I came today.
I wanted to pick up on a couple of comments from Vern. It feels as if you are suggesting that gay people are embracing the sexualisation of their identity? Did I get that wrong? It’s always seemed to me that most of the time when people do embrace that it is in order to respond to a discrimation by others who have already sexualised their identity for them. Yeah, there are people of all orientations who seem to allow their sexuality to overpower the other facets of who they are, but too often it seems like heterosexual are eager to overuse sexual identity in identifying their homosexual fellow travellers.
And while I agree with you that we should be trying to align ourselves with truth, none of us is entirely aligned. We’re all a few degrees out from parallel. If we were fully aligned, everything everyone says would be of much consequence, but we’d have a better idea of how and whether to respond. At least that’s how my out of alignment mind sees it.
Hey James…
Yeah, I’m out of line as well, and I’m finding that the more I try to align myself, the worse I get… I’ve stolen a play out of the AA playbook… “let go and let God”…
God wants a personal relationship with me WAY before he wants anything else, and above all else. I will get to the obedience part, but it will be me giving over control of an issue and God re-working my heart, not Vern trying to justify himself… been down that road for way too long… doesn’t work.
People can do what they will in regards to one’s sexuality and/or any other issue in one’s life, and any reaction that one has usually makes usually does nothing in the way of justifying ones self, and generally makes a given issue worse.
You cannot descriminate sexually against me because you know little or nothing about how I have sex, or if I have sex. TODAY, I mean right now, on this blog, I would not be voicing my opinion about homosexual issues if a serious homosexual agenda was not playing out in our nation. My normal response to dealing with issues that I am concerned about is to FIRST make sure I have dealt with them in my own life, then SECOND, as the Holy Spirit presents the opportunity, work with those in my personal sphere of influence… If I don’t have a loving personal relationship with someone, I usually just don’t go there.
But this is different. My overwhelming urge to voice what I’ve been saying is based on a direct attack on something I care very much about.
Marriage is the hardest thing I’ve done in my life.
Military medals mean little to me… but there is an officer Frank Cottone
http://www.homeofheroes.com/a_homepage/community/imposters/cottone.html
that goes around arresting people for fraudulently getting metals… people DIED for these medals…
Mess with them and incur this guy’s wrath…
I have a vested interest in marriage like these guys in medals.
-vern-
Hi Rachelle,
I’m very much a newbie to this whole blogging, conversation thing, and have never actually posted a reply to your (or anyones elses) blog before. But what you were writing about resonated so strongly with me that I felt I had to share my own experiences. As a hetero guy, married, family etc., down the line evangelical/charismatic Christian, it came as a real shock a few years ago to get a letter from an old college friend (evang. Xstn etc, married, children) in which he ‘outed’ himself as a homosexual. What does one say to that? We were on yearly Christmas card terms, so I couldn’t say we were close anymore, but I did get to see him a while later, and I guess I found it hard to understand where he was coming from, both Biblically, faithwise, and as a human being. Yes we talked, no I didn’t remonstrate or try to ‘deliver’ him (I could feel his agony over the years of ministry, prayer, and the help of misunderstanding friends) - I even managed to give him a hug. But, like you, I still find the whole thing confusing. If it were just down to interpretation of a few verses of scripture, it might be easier to find a way to empathise, but there seems to be a gut-deep antipathy to the practice which makes it difficult to put myself in their shoes, or see it as anything but wrong (where wrong = less than ideal, perfect, not natural).
Is this something lacking in me - I wouldn’t regard myself as overtly homophobic - or is it in him? Is this yet another result of messed up people in a messed up world, or something that is equal and equivalent to any other choice? Still working that one out, still pondering. And totally understand your concerns, even though coming at it from a different gender direction.
Anyway, thanks for all your open, honest sharing of your life, loves, faith and struggles. You’ve been an inspiration to me, all these many miles away (just how far is Seattle from the UK?)
Dave
Maybe we don’t need a new way. Maybe just a new variation on an old song. I think if we look at the Bible in a thoughtful, careful way - we can’t ignore its instruction. I think if you look at nature in a thoughtful, careful way, we can’t ignore its instruction either. The heavens declare the glory of God, and to me that means this issue should leave us with two very concrete conclusions. God made us his way, not ours - it’s about Him, not us. And love wins. The hard part is finding a way to make the two work, and its not a new problem.
Rachelle - I like what I’m reading, thanks.
“Love the sin but hate the Sinner.”?
..Tee hee, that’s a miss-quote. How Freudian.
I don’t have this issue all worked out yet, either. I do think there’s some truth to Ed Cook’s point of view, however. Sexual ’sin’ is sexual ’sin’. Sometimes you just have to be celebate to find Kingdom, whether you’re straight or not.
Wow rachelle, its kinda sad to think you call yourself a christian, and then talk like that. Thats not christianity, thats nothing. Homosexuality is sin in God’s eyes. Is immoral, and God says immorality is BAD. I know you can’t condemn your friend, but his ‘actions’ can’t just be tolerated. I’m not trying to single him out, i’m talking all people in relationships like that.
You can’t be a gay christian, it just doesn’t happen. I don’t believe in ideologies. Its about a relationship with God. And thats whats wrong with people today. They call themselves christians, then they tolerate everything that comes before them. If it means getting persecuted Jesus was persecuted before us, its nothing new, its gutless to tolerate. So your comments aren’t revolutionary, they’re weak and they make me mad. So if you don’t choose to follow the call of Christ, thats sad, but don’t make the rest of look bad.
OUCH!!! Peter, that’s gotta hurt… even if you were correct, a direct frontal assault is at least not going to be effective, and likely a sin in and of itself.
In the story about the woman at the well, Jesus casually mentions that the woman is currently living in sin, He does it as an aside… then drops it. He does not say, “call me when you get this straightened out and we’ll talk about water.”
Rachelle believes that what she’s doing is of God. If she’s wrong, God will guide her. It is possible to state that you believe differently without speaking for God (generally a dangerous undertaking). I’ve found that when I’m trying to hear the voice of God, direct frontal assaults tend to distract me.
-vern-
hindsight is a wonderful thing. Firstly I would like to apologise to rachelle. re-reading my comments when i was awake showed me i should be a bit more careful before i submit at midnight. I was a first time commenter, and got a bit carried away, so i’m sorry. And thanx for what u said too vern. So i’ll see ya at the next blog
That was great. IT made me cry, especially when I read the James Taylor song at the end. It has made me rethink alot of things I felt very strong about and not really sure where my opinoions came from. Thanks!!! S
I guess I couldn’t agree more on the fact that we need to stop being such jerks and start being more understanding and loving.
The question this raises for me, though, is whether we are starting to accept all aspects of people’s personalities - particularly those that are seemingly immutable - as being OK with God as-is, and not in need of redemption and change.
This isn’t just an issue with homosexuality. I would not “affirm” a friend who beats his wife, even if he’s from a long line of wife-beaters and has tried many times to stop. The fact that identity is involved here - and the comments in that regard have been great - does not really change anything. My identity can be as evil as the next guy’s, whether he’s gay or not, and neither of us is OK like that.
I want to bracket this comment again with my affirmation about not being jerks, since I don’t think that can be overstated. But I don’t think that’s the only thing there is to say on the issue. We have to keep believing that, to quote an old cliche, “Christ accepts us as we are, but refuses to leave us that way.” The trouble is, a lot of people think that only applies to “worse” sinners than themselves.
—A BlogSkit—
Modern: Sin is wrong. Don’t do it, no matter what.
Pomo: Don’t talk about sin. Love is more important.
Jesus: Shut up, both of you. Follow me.
Justin,
The thing is, when I follow the way of love, it is because I am following Jesus. I’m asking him to show me what he’s doing…and I’m reading his words and his stories, and this is what I’m coming up with — worrying less about sin and more about figuring out how to practice, really practice, love.
The other thing is, that we all have sin in our lives. Constant, repeated, unrepented sin. And no one, not one of my Christian friends, is going around keeping *me* out of this part or that part of living (church living or otherwise) because of it. The reality is we rank sins. And that sucks. And I’m tired of doing it. (If we are even sure that homosexual practice is a sin — which there are varying hermenutical “reads” on that as well.)
I’m trying to face into those realities.
R
“How could I say, “I love you, but I think this major part of you – perhaps a core part of you—is ugly, sinful, and wholly without merit?” Even if I said these things in the nicest possible way, how could he receive any of that without deep pain?”
Yes, but not all feelings or desires have to be acted upon - that’s what self-discipline is all about, and is one of the first principles to grasp about coming under the lordship of Christ (I don’t know a cool pomo way to say that - if we are Christians, Jesus is by definition our master). The church needs to get to the point where we can all say that gay Christians are welcome in all our churches, but that celibacy is the only option for gay followers of Christ. It’s the same for people who are atrracted to children or other people’s spouses, or who like to drink heavily - acting on those desires, however naturally they come, is not OK.
But we have not made celibacy an option in most churches. “If you’re gay, you’re out of here” is the immediate response. I think if celibacy were presented as a viable option - just as it is for single heterosexuals - and if there were not a condemning attitude, many gay Christians would remain Christians and remain in the church.
Thank you, Rachelle, for a very kind post, and for admitting that you don’t know all the answers. Nobody does.
I am a gay Christian, even though many people would argue that it is a contradiction in terms. But I know that I love Christ, that He loves me enough to have died for me, and that I try to show His love for others whenever I can.
I did not ask to be born gay. Nor did I ask to be born brown-haired or brown-eyed. But I am. And I have struggled my whole life to find out where I fit in to God’s plan, just like everyone else who has commented on your post. As is very common among my gay friends, I dated many wonderful women, convincing myself that I just hadn’t “found the right girl”. I regret, though, that I inadvertently hurt quite a few of them through the confusion of my struggle. Eventually, after years of denial, depression, and an incredibly pitiful suicide “attempt”, I came to a place where I had to decide to love myself the way I was, because that is how God made me. I’m not “proud” of being gay, any more than I would suspect heterosexuals are “proud” of being heterosexual.
I belong to the Catholic church, which recently has essentially emphasized the credo “Love the sinner, hate the sin” when it comes to the issue of homosexuality, and has at least accepted that we are born gay. But there is still no offer of what we are to do about it, other than “don’t”.
One of the side-benefits of being gay is that I am much less quick to judge others for how they are trying to live their life in Christ. To be honest, sometimes I think that is the whole point of my being gay. Christ was very adamant about the whole “judge not lest ye be judged” issue than he was with the homosexual issue, of which I’m not aware He said anything explicitly. His most important commandment is essentially “Love God with all that you are, and love others as I have loved you”. I really try to do that. And I have to believe that there is room in God’s Kingdom for me, just as there is for anyone who may not have any answers, but is still seeking.
Dave,
You made my chest loosen up today. I breathed easier today. I’m not sure why. Maybe just because of who you are, and how you are living, and that Jesus is a part of it. Come to think of it, that’s probably enough.
I was just about to IM my friend Jen and say, “Quick, send me to some website that has something beautiful. I need to see something beautiful right now.” Then I found your comment here — tinged with confession and truth, just truth. Now I don’t feel like I have to do that any more.
Thank you for posting on my blog today.
Shalom,
Rachelle
Just in case Dave comes back, I`d just like to thank him for for his comment (and you R for the post)
We need more of this kind of blogging.As someone who has gay friends, I get really pissed off when people - most of whom don’t have gay friends - spout off about gay people with comments such as you cant be gay and christian/love the sinner hate the sin etc. I have gay people reading my blog as well and I wouldnt have it any other way.