Things I Wish People Knew about Being A Woman In Minstry
I’m trying not to get angry these days, but I’m not doing a very good job at it. (I’ve already apologized to Andrew.) So I thought, instead of ranting I might start a sort of ongoing education campaign. Here’s the first edition.
1. We don’t like being called girls. At least not in public settings. It’s usually passable if we’re just hanging out, you know, having a beer. But from the pulpit, or in a workshop, or in an article, or even on a blog, you should probably go with “women.” (I have a friend who uses “chicks.” When we’re having a Guiness together, I find it totally endearing. But I’d hate to see what would happen to him if he tried that out in say, a workshop on pneumatology.) If we flip out because you refer to us in this diminutive way, it’s about far more than semantics. It’s about power and who has it and who doesn’t. It’s about lots of “stories we could tell” about being sidelined and put down and left out of the picture. Maggi says it so much better than I can.
2. We don’t have the natural connections that men in ministry do. We don’t know all the people you know. We haven’t been in this game as long and we don’t have the networks you do. This means we don’t get invited to speak here, or write there. (BTW, thanks Jason Evans for inviting me to write for nextwave.) We don’t always know how to get our foot into the conference speaking circuit or how to get a chance to guest lecture at a seminary where the professors are a part of an all male network. The men have an advantage here and we have a hard time getting into the circle. This is the one situation where I, personally, find it nice when someone opens the door for me. (Thanks Jim Henderson, for letting me MC at the Off the Map Road Show and for introducing me to Brian McClaren, Todd Hunter, Kevin Raines. Thanks too for introducing me to the names bloggers may not know…but should…April Stace, Heather Kirk-Davidoff, Kelly Bean, and Jen Lemen.)
3. Sometimes, even in 2004, someone has to take a risk to help us get started. Someone has to make sacrifices. My sending pastor, Ed Cook, ordained me while the Association of Vineyard Churches was hotly debating whether or not they would allow women to be ordained as lead (senior) pastors. A week later the AVC decided to leave it up to each individual church to decide (so while I am ordained here, my ordination may not be recognized if I were to interview for a position at another Vineyard.) He’s stood by me at my ordination, and again a few months later, when I went to the national conference and sat in a room of my peers only to find that my regional overseer was not in favor of that decision. He continues to support me as we explore new forms of church together, me with my congregation and he with his — even though our multicongregational style raises eyebrows and concerns with our denominational higher ups. We’re all taking risks, but after 20 years in the business, he has the most to lose.
3. The system is not set up to accomodate women. It takes extra effort. My husband supplements my salary so that between mine plus some of his, we can cover the daycare expenses that it takes for me to pastor even part-time. My spiritual director, Jenny Tracy, took a ferry from an island once a month to make sure that in my male dominated, anyalytical work/ministry enviroment I had someone to process with who had similar spiritual practices and understandings of soul care. The team I work with at the Seattle Vineyard arranges our monthly pastoral staff meeting so that they work around my children’s school schedule. Everyone flexes to me. It’s humbling, and here right now, it’s what we’ve needed to do as a community to make sure women get to play.
Well, that’s a good start. I feel better now.
i like this idea, rachelle! i tried to write about it a few posts ago, but your tone is much, much better! people could learn a lot from you on many points, this being one of many. i hope you get many warm responses.
R- you go! thanks for your great insight…
thanks for being honest and thanks for being willing to be real and blaze trails for all of us women in churchland!
obviously this discussion, which first began in january, and now on it’s second round, is an important, powerful and power-filled one…one that needs discussing and one that all need to really hear and really LISTEN TO!
unless we tell the truth, and unless all sides..men and women, are willing to REALLY listen, nothing will ever be different.
are you still in need of lenten artwork?
i just might have something for you, if so.
say hi to those mountains for me! lilly
your first point is dead right - what’s relevant here is the context. Fine for your friends to call you a ‘chick’ or a ‘blonde’ in private. Not fine to be called a ‘girl’ in public.
You go girl!
Hey, I heard about the AVC’s decision to make a non-decision. Fairly disappointing. AVC-Canada made a point in our inception that there would be no gender distinctions as “pastors” in a Vineyard.
So far (although there may be new info I’m not privy to), this has only meant that the husbands and wives are BOTH considered pastors, which is a step in the right direction, but it’ll take some time before peoples’ worldview adjusts beyond seeing the husband as the ‘real’ pastor.
If you’ve heard of any Canadian Vineyards that have made the jump to a female lead pastor (married or unmarried) I’d be happy to hear about it!
Great stuff, Rachelle. Constructive, educational, and helpful. Thanks again for your voice in this conversation.
Hope to see you Tuesday at the Road Show!
Blessings.
Good post, Rachelle. I wish more churches would realize that God does call women and that the women who feel called aren’t wrong, uppity, or pushy. I’m glad to be in a denomination where women as priests are accepted (well, 90-95%, anyway). I know those women have been and continue to be blessings to all of us.
You rock, Rachelle!
Thanks for putting these thoughts out there, Rachelle. Perhaps I will sit down and try to articulate some of my thoughts in writing, as well, not so much from your perspective of being a leader and those challenges, but from my perspective of being a churchmember. One of your thoughts I DON’T have a problem with (sorry to disagree Rachelle & Maggi), is I really have no problem being called “girl” or “gal” and somehow I don’t relate as much to “women” or “ladies”. I’m not a lady, and don’t know how much I feel like a woman, either…and I wonder if that has something to do with being single and not a “grown-up” or “adult” yet. But that might be another post!
Hi Rachelle, Wow… didn’t really even think this conversation was still going on in the emerging church. Through your blog I was pointed to some of the other conversations going on in this little blog-network. I’m amazed how you- and all the other women with their hands in-don’t feel completely discouraged. I am so passionate about diving into the emerging church kind of stuff, and am excited about how this is desire is being made real, but I admit, reading all these posts, especially ones from senior fellows at emergent, I just think, hmmm, I could definitely be a mustard-seed-attempt more effectively somewhere _outside_ the church. How deflating.
oh well. thanks for being a great leader, great friend.
Well said. Thanks for pointing out, graciously, that power is the real problem - as well as its (however unintentional or subtle) use to hold people back.
“Education” is probably the right term, because none of us em-church white males have any intention of trying to hoard power or put women down, but we do that accidentally by being careless and saying the things we’ve always said (without being called on it in the past).
I’ve been thinking a lot today about the power thing. Seattle Public Schools has had a huge initiative the past two years called “Couragous Conversations about Race.” The African American out-of-state consultant who led the sessions via TV basically accused all white people, especially males, of being racist whether they knew it or not. I took offense at this, but he had a valid point that unintentional or seemingly harmless things that we do - like using certain terminology or making certain assumptions - can have a huge negative effect.
I think the race situation parallels the gender situation, as Maggi has said. (note: If you’re not finding anything when you click on Maggi’s link, it’s because it’s supposed to be maggidawn.blogspot.com, not maggi.dawn.blogspot.com). I read in a teacher magazine about a school administrator who incorrectly assumed a black student “didn’t have a male role model at home.” The mother’s rage was understandable, and seems pretty parallel to Christy’s being asked by a male pastor to get him a cup of coffee.
I’m impressed by the posts that I’ve seen from the women in this conversation since Saturday. Thanks.
Great thoughts, as usual, Rachelle. Keep on keeping on, and don’t forget that the ‘under-cover secret-agents’ are on your side, even over here in Pennsylvania!
Rachelle,
I wonder if we’ve met. I remember about three years ago i was at the Vineyard leadership conference in Anaheim, and at the regional gathering, a pastor stood up and announced that they had hired a woman for a pastoral position. I introduced myself to that woman, and she told me the story of how she got the job. Was that you? If so, how can i email you? I have a question I’d like to ask offline.
Phyllis,
We may have very well met at the conference, but I was so shell shocked I don’t remember! Do email me at rachelle at seattlevineyard (all one word) dot org. Looking forward to hearing from you.
R
I was reading your post when I came across that you put your children in day care in order that you can be in the ministry. Being from a family of 7 children, I can not stress how important the aspect of the mother taking care of her children is. Your children need you, the children of now will be the pastors of tomarrow. Mothers and fathers need to train up their children in the way they should go. Modern culture tells us that being a mom is a lowly job, is could not disagree more. It is honorable.
May the Lord be with you, God bless.
ok call me guilty thanks for the headsup… next guiness on me
not meaning to be controversial here, but this is in response to Mike about the daycare thing. Rudy Carrasco talks has some interesting notes about orphans. here’s the link: http://urbanonramps.blogspot.com/2004_02_01_urbanonramps_archive.html#107691063525723882
Mike,
If you read my blog long enough, you’ll see that I totally adore my kids and value my role as a parent. Unlike many women, I am priviledged enough economically to be able to stay home with my children. However, my children, especially because they are girls, need to see me fullfilling all the parts of my life and not just the part named “mother.” I appreciate, that as a young person, you are bold enough to give your opinion about parenting and share your experience of being parented by a stay at home mom. I hope our family’s experience gives you a window on other positive ways of living and growing together.
Rachelle -
Great post. I think a lot of guys mean well, but just don’t understand what some of the barriers for women in ministry are. You did a good job of kindly and graciously pointing them out.
Your faith community in Seattle sounds like a reflective and welcoming place - I’m glad you do what you do, in spite of the fact that you have to jump over some extra hurdles
Peace,
Christy
rachelle,
thanks for your words. very encouraging. we all need those patrons…
be encouraged…may you have strength for the journey today.
holly rankin zaher
Thanks for continuing the conversation, beating us over the head with alternate reality, giving us more good stuff to integrate.
Hope I get to see you tonight my friend!
Rachelle,
As a pastor and husband of a pastor (I’m an associate on a staff and she’s a solo), let me send out kudos to you on your post — substance, depth, and tone.
Keep the faith, run the race. May you find much encouragement.
Peace.
Does 1 Timothy 2:12-14 have anything to say in this discussion?
I am glad this issue is not going away! Thanks.